Curse

LightningHell · Dec 04, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

You say you compensate it with +60 hp weapon and survivor runes, well there are more useful weapon mods and runes/insignias like +++energy. Whats the point of a powerfull heal if you have no energy to cast it.

Just saying...but...many monks go with full health (survivors, vitaes, etc).

Wakka · Dec 04, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

I would rather have a living monk that heals for less than a dead monk that heals for more.

moko · Dec 04, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

personal experience: tried both, swapped from sup to minor, realised how much easier PvE was.

electrofish · Dec 04, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Thanks a lot for the input guys.
As I will be frequently taking my monk into PVP I think I'll stick with minor ones.
I'll probably keep a sup prot headpiece handy for bonding use in PVE, but I'll ditch the rest.

Chthon · Dec 04, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

1. The idea of avoiding aggro through not using a sup rune is bogus. It's been debunked several times, but it just keeps coming back. The monsters consider other factors besides health level when choosing targets. Most importantly for you, they also consider armor and proximity. You've got paper armor -- so even if you've got more 75 health than the warrior/ranger/para/derv/asn standing next to you, you're still probably going to get the aggro. Good PvE monks avoid aggro through good battlefield positioning, not silly gimmicks with their equipment.
Moreover, if everyone in your party took this stupid idea seriously, everyone would eschew a sup rune, and you'd end up with the same relative life totals. It's not like the monsters are going to see your team, go "no sup runes on this bunch... aw screw it..." and just leave you alone. No, they're going to attack. And guess who's going to get the aggro? Same person who got it before you all changed your runes.

2. The idea of not using sup runes to get a 75 hp "safety buffer" has some merit, but only for very aggressive playstyles in very high-end zones. Ask yourself, do you regularly play so close to the edge that you routinely find yourself under 75hp, but still alive? If so, then a safety buffer of 75hp might be for you; If not, you would be trading your 2 attribute points for 75 hp that you would never "use" -- essentially giving up 2 att points for nothing.
As for me, I rarely find myself "using" that last 75hp. When my monk dies, it is almost always in either (a) a hopeless situation brought on by a big time aggro mistake, leading to a certain party wipe, or (b) a massive surge of damage that wasn't timely pre-proted. In neither case to I find myself saying, "if only I had 75 more hp, I would still be alive." Rather it's "if only I had seen that coming and PS-ed myself, I'd still be alive," or "if only the warrior wasn't a retard who aggroed 4 mobs at once, I'd still be alive." I almost never find myself "using" that last 75 hp, so it's almost always useless to me. In most situations, I'd rather have the extra attribute points than some hitpoints I don't need. Your mileage may vary.

Kwan Xi · Dec 04, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

personal experience: tried both, swapped from sup to minor, realised how much easier PvE was.

I get the feeling this is one of the reasons why LoD was nerfed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

I would rather have a living monk that heals for less than a dead monk that heals for more.

Personal Experience but I find that with a good group and team, and as long as I'm staying in the back lines of the party I'm not dead. My success varies if I'm in a PUG, but if I'm with Friends or Hero/Henching I rarely die, but thats probably just me. Of course if you truly have trouble staying alive every single time (Or if your one that really likes PUGS) I guess then you really do need the 600HP.

Anyway I think its the fact I'm used to playing with a Superior Rune in my armor that I never noticed a difference... though I've never played High End PvP like GvG and HoH. I usually stay in the back let the other team members take the hits and run away when attacked, not be like the idiot in the front lines where it's easy for enemies Human or NPC to reach you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but PvE or PvP if your team's monk(s) comes under heavy (8v1) attack isn't one of the team's job to help the monk out? Or are you suppose to do what you want and if your monk dies you start flaming on him/her?

Besides my favorite PvP combo to use when under heavy attack is Protective Spirit+Shield of Absorption. PS is more effective on me rather then a 600HP Monk.

God of the blade · Dec 04, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

minor runes ftw, i've never heard anyone complain

ShadowsRequiem · Dec 04, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Always used minor runes on a Monk in pvp and pve. Lots of Health is nice

There is also always the arguement of people wanting to use Radiant insignias on there armor too. Imo Survivor is much better as you should be fine and able to manage your energy.

Tyla · Dec 04, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

sup runes fail....enough said (cept for absorption and vig ofc)

Ensign · Dec 04, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

For most of normal mode PvE it doesn't matter if you have runes in your armor at all.

In situations where it actually matters what your equipment is, minors are going to consistently outperform superiors or majors on a Monk.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 04, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I usually play prot so i run sups with no problem even in DOA. but with heal I use a major rune since the difference isn't all that great. Plus with prot if I do get targeted with less health prot spirit gets better and better<_<>_>

Lord Natural · Dec 05, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

For PvE it doesn't matter that much. I usually run a sup, simply because it's pretty easy to see damage coming my way in most cases. I've noticed I rarely die first in pve, and if I do die it's usually because of a full wipe situation where I couldn't escape. So in that respect I feel an extra 75 health is irrelevant and I may as well get something extra out of my skills.

For PvP, coordinated spikes are a real threat and a monk is a prime target, so that extra 75 health helps a lot.

Burst Cancel · Dec 05, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Due to the fact that you can control aggro in PvE, the superior rune isn't much of a liability. There is absolutely no argument for PvP though - you do not run superiors there.

Those of you talking about 'compensating' are thinking about this in entirely the wrong way. There's no compensation going on because someone who uses a minor and +60hp defense set (which there is no excuse not to have) is still going to have 75 more health than you.

Everything you equip that doesn't give you health/armor represents an opportunity cost. For instance, rather than minor runes, you could be running Vitaes. So in every instance where you're not putting health/armor on your equipment, you have to consider whether it's worth the penalty. +1 skill for -10 health isn't really debatable, but +3 for -85 ...

LightningHell · Dec 05, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

I usually play prot so i run sups with no problem even in DOA. but with heal I use a major rune since the difference isn't all that great. Plus with prot if I do get targeted with less health prot spirit gets better and better<_<>_>

On the contrary, usually people would opt to use a minor with protection, as the extra few seconds aren't all that great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

Besides my favorite PvP combo to use when under heavy attack is Protective Spirit+Shield of Absorption. PS is more effective on me rather then a 600HP Monk.

If you have to have a specific "combo" ready to protect against heavy attacks on yourself...

...it says a lot.

Kwan Xi · Dec 05, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

If you have to have a specific "combo" ready to protect against heavy attacks on yourself...

...it says a lot.

I have a lot of other combos too if your intrested? It's either find ways to protect yourself or keel over and die right? What would you do if your under attack? Is High HP your only defense?

Anyway... It seems the only time Sup/Major runes are really bad would be in High end PvP, now like I said many times I've never played GvG and HoH. I've never had Problems in the other PvP arenas like Random, Team, Alliance, Hero, or Fort Aspenwood.

So how about lets just say Superior Runes ok in PvE but not for the high end PvP (GvG, HoH) and close the subject is that ok?

LightningHell · Dec 05, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

I have a lot of other combos too if your intrested? It's either find ways to protect yourself or keel over and die right? What would you do if your under attack? Is High HP your only defense?

If you have a specific combo you slap on yourself when you get attacked, there's something wrong with how you're playing the game.

Wakka · Dec 05, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Anyway I think its the fact I'm used to playing with a Superior Rune in my armor that I never noticed a difference... though I've never played High End PvP like GvG and HoH. I usually stay in the back let the other team members take the hits and run away when attacked, not be like the idiot in the front lines where it's easy for enemies Human or NPC to reach you.

In GvG/HA its a big no-no. I dont like sup runes in the high end of PvE as the enemies will abuse you for having the least hp.

Faure · Dec 05, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

I'm walking around with a sup prot or heal, a minor divine, a major vig (don't have money for sup) and a lot of energy and hp incripts/runes.

In total i have between 471 and 530 hp and 52-57 energy (depending on weapset).

Wakka · Dec 05, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

471hp is a bit dodgey! I prefer 600ish hp ^^

LightningHell · Dec 05, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Generally you'd have 640ish health and somewhere in the forties for energy on your main set, from my experiences.